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Talk:Rand al'Thor
How tall is Rand? Can someone please tell me just how tall Rand is in normal measuring units aka centimeters? It doesn't seem to be anywhere on the wiki page and nobody seems to have converted his height from WoT units to normal ones Somewhere around 6'5". Acarna (talk) 02:25, December 20, 2013 (UTC)Acarna Jesus *Wait, how was Jesus using powers usually reserved for women? nae'blis (talk) 15:23, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC) *There are some (myself among them) who might take umbrage at Jesus being referred to as a fictional messiah. Also, I don't recall Jesus having powers normally reserved for women. =`) :Excise at your discresion if you plan to write a more reasoned comparison. The article from WP had an empty Jesus section, which annoyed me, so I figured I'd make a childish joke.--Gherald 15:37, 25 Oct 2005 (UTC) *Waitasec. No one's forecast his ressurection? What about the following bit of the Prophecies? “Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed. Once for mourning, once for birth. Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul. In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow.” Seems to me fairly clear that it's saying he's going to die then return to life, there. -- Coyote Seattle ** I would think it's possible to lose blood without dieing. --Gherald 23:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC) ** Rand my not be resurected again, but as the Wheel of Time turns, the Dragon will be reborn many times. Spewin 13:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC) *If memory serves, hasn't there been a lot of roundabout hinting that Rand will be resurrected by Nynaeve after three days of being dead? At the least, I'm sure she's talked about doing it, and that would match pretty identically to the Jesus resurrection. 04:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC) ** I would point out that RJ's idea for the Mythos of our age and the 3rd are somewhat misinterpretation's of actual events(Merik and Mosk, Elbit, etc) if you look at the new viewings by Min, the idea of Rand needing her, Elyene and Aviendha to survive Tarmon Gai'don could be a hint at the muddling of stories after so many generations. And on a side-note, I don't think it is greatly productive to incorporate Modern Christian ideals to a story that hasn't shown any of the supposed 'christian' values.(did RJ give any explanations to this, his beliefs, etc?)Lightningbarer 21:32, December 9, 2009 (UTC) ***Well, one of Min's viewings about Rand and Lews Therin joining together and then one of them dying suggests that Rand will live while the voice in his head finally goes away. [[User:Rahien|'Rahien']] ****Not to 'poo poo' on the whole ressurection thing here, but the viewing that Min had is almost completely agreed by all the fans of Randland to be Rand and Moridin, probably from them both using Balefire and them touching. Y'know, the pattern eraser against the pattern eraser.Lightningbarer 22:24, January 29, 2010 (UTC) *What about Nicola in Lord of Chaos: "Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives." hand Which hand did Luke lose in Star Wars?--Cyberk 23:14, November 10, 2009 (UTC) Somebody with the last book in front of them want to remind me which hand he lost? nae'blis (talk) 15:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC) :Left. --TheParanoidOne 20:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC) What's the name of that hand torture Paul Atreides goes through at the start of Dune? I figure that's another similarity between Rand and Paul, because they both suffer hand pain early in their careers as messiahs (Paul from that bow thingy, Rand from the heron brand). The Dragon Preborn 16:02, 21 September 2006 (UTC) : The hand torture that Paul Atreides went through on Caladan in Dune has no special name, as I recall. He was being tested to see if he was, ahem, human. Humans would be able to resist pulling their hands from "the box" which is the tool Mother Superior Helen Gaius Mohaim (not sure about the spelling of the surname) uses to test him, while animals would instinctively remove their hands. The box inflicts pain by nerve induction. So there was the box, and there was the gom jabbar, a needle-like object worn on the tip of the index finger, and coated with deadly poison, I guess, to motivate the testee to pass. When the Lady Jessica introduces Paul to the Reverend Mother, she simply says that Paul is going to be tested,or maybe observed. Pedantic 17:45, 16 April 2008 (UTC) So in KoD Rand losses the hand, could he not have gotten his hand back by killing Semirhage with bailfire? Cuz if you think back to LoC Mat died but Rand brought him back with bailfire.Kumar12 22:54, August 26, 2010 (UTC) King Arthur Could you write a few words about the References of Rand to King Arthur? For exemple the idea of the sword what can be taken only by the real king/Dragon. Or the taking by Morgause(Moiraine Damodred) to Avalon(Tar Valon)? My English isn't good enough to write here. 84.94.210.183 16:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC) :So are: *arthur --> artur Hawkwing *morgause --> morgase Trakand :..similarities in name only? --Gherald 17:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC) Af course there is a real connection(not the name only). I mean you should write in this(Rand al'Thor) article about the references of Rand to King Arthur as you wrote his references to Jesus, Tyr, Paul Atreides etc. 84.94.147.118 19:45, 29 September 2006 (UTC) :You can't forget that he is also called Artur Paendrag. --Steeltooth 03:42, December 25, 2009 (UTC) Lucifer For a long time (since somewhere in the mid 90's) I have taken for granted that RJ intentionally made parallels between the Dragon and Lucifer of the bible. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family, and read the bible a LOT, and it seemed obvious to me. I presented this idea to a couple of people, who thought that I was crazy, but I did a little research recently and saw that I was not alone: http://www.tarvalon.net/library/index.php?title=Lews_Therin_vs._Lucifer http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=172 http://www.wotmania.com/blackboard.asp?TheoryID=432 http://www.wotism.net/forums/archive/index.php/t-5317.html just to name a few of the pages that I have found. Some important points: *Name similarities. Lews Therin sounds vaguely like lucifer. Lucifer's title was something like Morningstar, or Son of the morning; and the lews/rand has been called, Lord of the morning, He who comes with the dawn,etc. *RJ admits that Randland is our world in the past/future (WHEEL of Time), and that the characters in the books are supposedly the inspiration for our own myths and legends, and that people in our time are the source of Rand's myth's and legends. I don't remember the specifics, but somewhere in the series Thom (I think) lists a bunch of legends that included modern day astronauts. Paraphrase "Joe Schmoe flew to the mood in the belly of an eagle made of fire". There were others. **Alexander the great, Plato, Newton, Einstein, Jesus, Muhammad, Adolf Hitler, Julius Caesar, Buddha, etc might be considered Ta'veren of our time. I apologize if that list of names offends anyone. I was merely thinking of people who have had massive impacts on our world. **In the above paraphrase of Thom's(?) tail of an astronaut, I used the name Joe Schmoe, but I remember the name actually used in the book had a strong similarity to a modern astronaut. (Sorry, I'm not looking up all of these references right now.) *Not all Christians and/or bible scholars associate Lucifer with Satan. The traditional Hebrew's did not, and I think that the current consensus is that they were not intended to be interpreted as the same person. I remember reading somewhere about the introduction of the association of satan and lucifer into current christian theology. **With either interpretation the theory still works, but it actually works better with the idea that Lucifer and satan are in fact the same person, because the dragon/serpent parallel below. *Lucifer could be another incarnation of the Dragon, it doesn't necessarily have to be Lews Therin or Rand. Although it works well with the therin/lucifer association. I will add more, and change things later. RobotSteve 21:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC) : Thanks, RobotSteve, for a really interesting discussion of the parallels between Lucifer and Rand. I was ready to comment, guns a-blazin' over this issue until I surfed over to Wikipedia and read the article on Lucifer in preparation. It's a very long article, and makes some of the points clearly that you have made. It does clarify one point, however, and that point is the reason I will refrain from extended comment. There are many, many ideas about who or what Lucifer is. My personal opinion aside, to resolve this, we would have to go to RJ himself to get a final answer, and that, unfortunately, is impossible. So I will simply end this entry by saying that I will agree to disagree, if you will. Pedantic 18:10, 16 April 2008 (UTC) Very interesting indeed, what if Rand is destined to not only slay the dark one but take his place? Maybe he kills the part of him that is Lews Therin (that part becoming the dark one) and thus proving "to live you must die" --Cyberk 23:20, November 10, 2009 (UTC) I think it appears that RobotSteve was right. In AMoL, The Dark One calls Rand "Adversary" which is what "a satan" was in Hebrew. Isn't that alone worth a mention on the front page? 12:29, October 10, 2013 (UTC) Just something interesting I recently found out that the word "rand" in Old Norse means "shield". RJ obviously knew a little about ON, so I'm wondering if this could be intentional. 98.145.79.227 23:00, 28 April 2008 (UTC) A weighty issue, haw-haw... I just wanted to ask where the reference for Rand's weight is - 23 and a half stone seems awfully excessive, even though he is a tall man. If a stone is 14 lbs (and not some entirely different unit of measurement in Randland) then this would place the Dragon Reborn at a hefty 329 lbs. And far be it for me to speculate here, but I must say Rand has never come across as being THAT muscular, and we know he isn't fat. Just tossing it out there. ( 15:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)) *There is in fact a different meaning of stone in Randland. The article on measurement here has that 10 ounces = 1 pound, and 10 pounds = 1 stone. If we assume that an ounce weighs the same, 23.5 stone would come out at around 146lbs which seems light for a tall, athletic man. If rather we assume that a pound is equal between us and them, then it would just be 235 pounds. Of course, the units of length are also different, and with Rand coming in at 1 span, 5 inches (according to his article here), this would be 65 Randland inches. If an inch is the same here and there, he's only 5'5" (in which case 146 would probably be a reasonable weight). On the other hand, if a foot is the same here and there (regardless of being different numbers of inches), then he'd be around 6 and a half feet. As far as I'm aware there's no way to determine what the actual, correct conversion is between their units and ours. 14:53, 31 July 2008 (UTC) *If you read some of the Jordan interviews/letter here, he does say that Rand is supposed to be 6 1/2 feet. So I think in terms of measurement, it would be the "foot" that's the same. From that, I would think that the "pound" would also be the point at which measurement of weight converge, ie 1 inch in Randland = 1.2 inches; and 1 RL ounce = 1.2 ounces. Astro Droid 02:32, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Rand merging with Moridin? Ok here is my thought. What if through the crossings of balefire during the shadar logath chase of sammael, rand and moridin some how became connected(which we know) and are slowly "merging" as in the way min's viewing says. We know the merging wasn't rand and lews therin because they have always been one as he said at the end of TGS. This would explain 1. The reason he could use the true power 2. Why he has that "blackness" around him when people look at him. This is just a theory so I guess I shouldn't update the page but what do other people think?--OPTIMOUS 23:22, November 2, 2009 (UTC) I don't know why anyone hasn't replied to this yet, but I'll bet you're completely right Optimous. If I could suggest a slight change though, as both Moridin and Rand used Balefire and they connected, I'm thinking the 'merging' that Min is seeing is probably the Pattern trying to work out a complete paradox in itself that a pattern eraser tried to erase a pattern eraser. With the two users of the power connected, one will have to be removed from the pattern by balefire to fix the problem.Lightningbarer 18:50, February 4, 2010 (UTC) :That does make sense. Well if any balefire concept CAN make sense. Thanks for the replay finally :)--OPTIMOUS 03:09, February 5, 2010 (UTC) : :I don't see how they would be connected, its not the issue of the pattern eraser vs pattern eraser, but balefire vs balefire, you see the weaves would simply delete themselves out of existance so the two of them never could have been joined by power. As for using the true power, Rand was able to see the true power connected to Ishmael by the thick black tendril, way back when. If no one can see the True power being used, but Rand was able to see the connection would that mean that he was extrordinary beyond what was assumed. Meaning that because he was the Dragon it would be possible for him to tap into it either because of his connection with the dark one as his nemesis throughout the ages, because he was simply the Dragon, or maybe even being wounded with the True power. Just some thoughts.Wreckhur 05:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC)Wreckhur Rand & the true power Woah, i mean, Woah, i didnt see that one comming! iv been trying to research the how into this and come up with nothing. one of mins vewings saying him becoming 3. possibly using saidene, sidar, and the true power, or becoming lews therin moridin and rand althour? maby to lock the dark one away he needs all 3, to draw from moridin? maby when moridin is defeated this may be possible. i dont rearly know and im just throwing out ideas. anyone got any suggestions? What I wonder now is if Rand has somehow Healed his fractured mind to become sane. Will this mean that he still suffers the nausea and dizziness when he tries to channel? The other thing that confuses me is if Lews Therin and Rand were always the same, where did the memories, images, talents and using weaves that haven't been used since the first age come from?? Will Rand no longer have access to any of these things now? :With the introduction of the information from TGS, here is what I think happened. Rand always had the memories of Lews Therin, being Lews Therin reborn. His soul, if you will, was the same. When Rand found that he could channel, and all of the stress that comes with it (i.e. the madness), it was a blow to him. To also have memories of his previous life popping up would, in my opinion, probably drive him more insane. I believe that Rand's subconsious was trying to protect him and therefore gave his past memories their own personna. This way, Rand could believe "Hey, this is what happens when someone is reborn specifically, this is what happens to the Dragon Reborn." At the end of the book, he finnaly came to terms with the fact that he has the memories of Lews Therin and that Lews Therin wasn't just in his head. Again, only my opinion. Hope that makes sence. ----[[User:Mainphramephreak| Willie]][[User Talk:Mainphramephreak| LLAP]] 13:36, November 10, 2009 (UTC) :What if Rand uses the True Power itself to seal the dark one? as any other power will need to touch the dark one thus making it possible for the power used to be tainted?--Cyberk 23:25, November 10, 2009 (UTC) **Personally I think it's got more to to with Callandor than anything else when it comes to sealing the 'Dark One' up.Lightningbarer 21:39, December 9, 2009 (UTC) *The nausea and dizziness didn't come from the madness or the taint. This was confirmed by the fact that neither went away after he cleansed saiden and its strongly suggested that Moridin is experiencing similar problems with the True Power which would mean its from his connection with Moridin caused by the balefire streams crossing. **Actually, I'm sure that at some point after Winter's Heart was publsihed, a bunch of people asked whether Rand would now be freed of the Madness and RJ said specificially that it wouldn't happen, that the effects of the Taint on all people remain, it just means no one can get sicker or now be tainted. As with what Optimus said above, I agree that the 'nausea and dizziness' that both are apparently feeling is the Pattern trying to work out how to fix a problem of two pattern erasers trying to erase oneanother.Lightningbarer 15:10, September 16, 2010 (UTC) The Blades With reading and rereading the series, I've just got one question really about Rand, he's had something like three or more swords-all Blademasters apparently-I'm just wondering where most of them went? I know how Tam's, I'm just stumped on the other(s).Lightningbarer 21:38, December 9, 2009 (UTC) :Well for a long time he only used fire swords that he made out of the power that had the heron mark on them. He then got a sword from Aviendha, Laman Damodred's old sword. And he then got another sword (I forget from where) but it is a blade master sword and is really old and he knows the history.--OPTIMOUS 00:32, December 10, 2009 (UTC) : Spoiler issue In the final spoiler section on the main page, it suggests that Rand succumbed to maddness by his self-loathing. I would argue against it, he had been pushed and prodded by litterally everyone since leaving the Two Rivers and never fully lost his control, he nearly did...but in nearly killing his dad, he began hating himself.Lightningbarer 23:51, January 10, 2010 (UTC) The whole madness thing...if i remember correctly started to escalate when he began trying to make himself harder, i believe that the voice of lews therin was rand's emotions trying to make themselves heard through a means rand would accept = Lews Therin, the memories were always his i mean he is the only soul reborn for a single purpose so alot of things will be different for him. Elfknight 28/01/10 *Y'know, that actually sounds right. Didn't he start 'hearing voices' after LoC and that was when he sent Maidens into major battle for the first time, wasn't it?Lightningbarer 22:27, January 29, 2010 (UTC) Saidin In the opening description it states that Rand is 'particularly strong in both Fire and Spirit, because he can force his dreams on others' while thas true, shouldn't it be explained that he is only strong in spirit for a man. it was explained in PoD 'The Bargain' that he was 'in a sense' weak because he could only create a bridge of spirit to carry two people the exact limit he had or that it would collapse as soon as someone stepped on it.Lightningbarer 14:25, January 31, 2010 (UTC) I don't know if this is true, but the WoT RPG states that Rand is strong with all affinities, which would make sense (as he is the strongest channeler ever, why would he be limited to one or two affinities?). I don't know if RJ has confirmed any of this, but this is just my opinion. ~SimonBasileus~ I remember it said women could always make longer bridges, being one of the excentricities of the One Power, just like men are in general stronger. And yes, I think he's strong in all five Powers, but he has few Talents.Astro Droid 23:49, December 5, 2010 (UTC) Defence on Maradon How could Rand kill the whole of the Trolloc army? I wondered if he used callandor to help finish the trolloc army. However the aiel that he took through the gateway were maidens and not wise ones so couldn't have linked with him to safely use callandor. Rand has not presented this sort of power before when fighting. Tommy a 19:39, December 5, 2010 (UTC) Tommy a :If I remember correctly, it was the weaves and not the strength that defeated the Trollocs. ----[[User:Mainphramephreak| Willie]] - [[User Talk:Mainphramephreak|''HtS]] 02:54, December 6, 2010 (UTC) :Yeah, rand just kicks ass XD SIMONBasileuV :Also, isn't it mentioned somwehere that men grow in the Power in leaps, after using lots of the Power? Because of his already phenomenal strength, and using lots of the Power in a relatively short amount of time, (cleansing Saidin, balefirin' Greandal's hideout, breaking the Choedan Kal, etc.) he might just be strong enough to do all that without an angreal. -OneHandyRandy 14:14, June 17, 2012 (UTC) Rands viewing One of the viewing of Rand al'Thor: ''"Two dead men on the ground, surrounded by ranks and ranks of Trollocs (perhaps a reference to Lan's charge at the Shadowspawn in Tarwin's Gap)." Could it be the 2 death of the Five Great Captains? *Death of Gareth Bryne going mad after death of Siuan Sanche, charging into army of trollorcs and dies. *Death of Davram Bashere with his wife Deira ni Ghaline t'Bashere in a cavalry charge at the forces of shadow on the Field of Merrilor and dies. Chifu (talk) 15:00, January 1, 2015 (UTC) Power Rankings Where do the power rankings come from (eg - Rand is ++1)? Been awhile since I read the series, but I don't recall it from there. --Stevehim (talk) 03:43, February 1, 2017 (UTC) :It's from the latest Companion book that came out 2 years ago called The Wheel of Time Companion: The People, Places, and History of the Bestselling Series.--OPTIMOUS 07:08, November 12, 2010 (UTC)